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No. 60
from heron
Old Jul 08, 2009, 04:11 PM
Updated Jul 08, 2009 at 04:21 PM by heron

Default Re: Sadly Gay Male Nurse Stereotype is Not Just Trolls
Originally Posted by leslie :-D View Post

btw, what's a high femme?
urban dictionary stated contextually, that it's a gay woman who dresses/acts like a girly girl (my words).
is that what a high femme is?

leslie
That's close enough for the purposes of this discussion, if you include that a femme's sexual and emotional attraction is to butches. It gets complicated. If you want to explore, check out a website called Butch-Femme.com.

Fair warning ... if you go there, you need to hold onto your hat, it's gonna be a bumpy ride. The more tender minded among us might want to leave it alone.

I'd like to add that I mention that site in response to what I see as an honest request for information. I'm asking that if anyone goes there and finds her/himself shocked, scandalized or otherwise offended, that you simply leave the site and delete it from your internet history.

It's just about the only safe space some of us have.

BTW ... some of us glory in the reclaiming of such labels as queer, diesel dyke, queen, etc. It's become an integral part of coming out, for many.

I think that this is what I want to see happen in larger society ... the redefinition of stereotypes ... turning what was an insult into a big "so what?"

It's an evolutionary process, I think. Pie-in-the-sky?
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No. 61
from keithjones
Old Jul 09, 2009, 02:40 AM
Updated Jul 09, 2009 at 02:48 AM by keithjones

Default Re: Sadly Gay Male Nurse Stereotype is Not Just Trolls
Originally Posted by Moogie View Post
What I don't understand is why people---especially teenagers and twentysomethings---use "gay" to describe something that is uncool. My son---who has been taught that homophobia is WRONG---one time described his math class as "gay." EXCUSE ME? :angryfire Barbie once said that math class is tough, but how can it be homosexual? So does that mean the math class only dates other math classes like algebra or calculus and not the history or English classes?

I hear so many people using the word "gay" in the same way they used to use the cringe-worthy word "retarded". Also wrong! :angryfire Yet how many people would say something is "retarded" and not feel it was a slur against those who were developmentally disabled? I don't even like hearing someone say something is stupid---yet I find myself saying that on occasion (usually in reference to an inanimate object like a car or a computer.)

Maybe the use of the word "gay" as slang to denote uncool---like against math class---is done out of ignorance more than out of malice. Still totally wrong---and my son knows the next time he says that he's going to hear my spiel ALL OVER AGAIN because he knows better than to put down anyone. :angryfire

Sticks and stones can break our bones but words do wield tremendous power---to hurt as well as to heal.

Thanks for moving the thread, VLV!
As a gen Xer I've used this since I was a pre-teen, It has absolutely nothing to do with Homosexuality at all. Besides using gay to describe homosexuals is insulting if you look at the origin:

1 a: happily excited : merry <in a gay mood> b: keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits <a bird's gay spring song>
2 a: bright, lively <gay sunny meadows> b: brilliant in color
3: given to social pleasures ; also : licentious
4 a: homosexual <gay men> b: of, relating to, or used by homosexuals

The reason the 4th definition came to regular useage is because of the 3rd one: Licentious
1: lacking legal or moral restraints ; especially : disregarding sexual restraints
2: marked by disregard for strict rules of correctness
It was therefore a pejorative term, much like the term queer, both terms have since been embraced by the homosexual community (to varying degrees) and are now acceptable.

Urban dictionaries already add a 5th definition "often used to describe something stupid or unfortunate." though are very opinionated in doing so adding "originating from homophobia. quite preferable among many teenage males in order to buff up their 'masculinity'".

I got smacked for saying "crap" and never even though of saying "p*ss" as a kid but hear most kids now using both without any thought. my wife hates when i say "I got gypped" because its insulting to gypsies!! I guess we all have our little taboo words!

Words seep into usage from various origins and quickly lose any relation to their original meaning. Gay will either lose all negative connotation or get tabooed out of usage (as we are discussing it)... who knows at this point.
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No. 62
from keithjones
Old Jul 09, 2009, 04:07 AM

Default Re: Sadly Gay Male Nurse Stereotype is Not Just Trolls
"First of all, Nowhere did Jesus ever say anything about homosexuality being a sin. The passages about homosexuality are in Leviticus, which is the Old Testament. Christians seem to forget that the coming of Christ invalidates the old laws that were used to promote bigotry amongst the wealthy/heathy Jews and the Poor/Sickly Jews. The new law of Christ was Love thy brother as thy love thyself. Live a life of poverty, The apostles walked the land promoting the gospel. Without a beggar bowl, staff, weapons, money. They only had the clothes on their back and the belief that Christ was divine. The new law superseded the old, with te exception of the ten commandments, and those said nothing against gay people.

I found a short article that refutes your false assumption
"Did Jesus Do Away With the Law?

Did Jesus do away with the commandments of God? Many turn to the Sermon on the Mount to point to "conclusive proof" that Jesus retired the Ten Commandments en masse by fulfilling our need to keep them by His death. But in fact, far from doing away with the law, the sermon Jesus gave is a confirmation deepening of the understanding of the intent of God's holy commandments. and
Jesus stated unequivocally in His sermon: "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill," (Matthew 5:17). The Greek word pleroo, here translated "fulfill," means "to make full," "to fill to the full," "to make complete in every particular," "to render perfect" or "to carry through to the end" (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 2005, Strong's number 4137).
Far from destroying or abolishing the law, as some interpret this verse, Jesus said He came to fill the law to the full—to complete and perfect it. This He did by showing the deeper spiritual intent and application of the law.
We see this through the remainder of the chapter, where Jesus proceeded to give a deeper meaning to it, contrasting the understanding of the commandments of those listening to Him with God's intent by the statements: "You have heard that it was said to those of old ..."and "But I say to you that .. ."
He pointed out to those listening that while they had been taught that they should not murder, the real meaning of the Sixth Commandment was that God expects us to value all people and reconcile all of our differences with others in peace, not just refrain from taking another's life (Matthew 5:21-26). Likewise, it is the lust in our minds that conceives the act of adultery that is sin, not just the act itself (verses 27-32). GN"


In short Jesus amplified the law... now lust is adultery and hatred is murder... talk about raising the bar! He set the standard so high that without Him we are all doomed!
Jesus did however do away with the religious customs of his time, the "unwritten laws". Kind of like baptists not allowing dancing or alcohol in moderation (i am baptist btw), these rules are not based on scripture and are "man's laws" not God's!


On average, most people forget this. I gather that many people will read this and look it up to see if it's true because the average person has a 1st grade christian education."
I am a 4-year bible college graduate and a licensed Pastor so I have a very deep and intimate understanding of scripture.

As for your belief that if you out yourself your are making yourself open to be judged...

I was just stating fact that if you out yourself (about anything not just sexuality) in a public setting some people will pass judgment. I never condoned it! In context I do not believe calling a sin a sin is passing judgment nor is teaching the truth to others in an attempt to bring others to repentance. a blatant lack of tact on the part of some IS judgmental (example: yelling you're going to hell etc. etc). I am the first to point out my own flaws in these discussions and acknowledge my own sinfulness. I get accused of being judgmental and being a hypocrite in these types of discussions , I find it amusing. I am standing(figuratively) in a group of people saying we are all sinners, and everyone says "speak for yourself". If you are a human being over the age of say.... 2 you ARE a sinner, Get used to it! It's almost a moot point whether homosexuality is a sin or not because we have all done enough already to condemn us to Hell, what you do with Jesus is the most important thing!

If a person is a good person, and is a talented, caring, and professional medical staff person, then their sexuality shouldn't be considered.

Agreed!

We are all sinners. Most of us sin within the first hour of the day.


Yup.


I pray that you will invest less time believing that Homosexuality is a SIN and start working to improve your relationships, with your co-workers, patients, family, and friends.

It is so hard to convey feeling, and intent, and personality when trying to communicate fact in a text based forum. I carry on conversations with people and listen to all sorts of crap I find offensive (sexual escapades, drug use, etc.) and never say a word about God, religion, right and wrong, etc., but people over time learn who I am and usually become very courteous about not sharing as much, or at least stop being vulgar in doing so in my presence. I become a sounding board for them when they do have difficulty or do have questions but never force anything on anyone. please understand that If you worked side by side with me you would probably never hear any of the things you have read here. I know certain topics are polarizing and avoid them like the plague in a workplace. I might be dragged into a discussion on "the gay gene" or marriage law, but would never broach a discussion on whether being gay is a sin. If nothing else having read several books on leadership and networking would have taught me not to go there! And I would never in a million years treat a patient different because of their beliefs, or sexual orientation. In fact, I was fast friends with a truck driving student of mine back when I taught who was a Muslim from Turkey. We lived together in the same truck for 2 months and he stayed in my home and I in his. Differences only divide if you let them!

I just pray that you never have a gay son or daughter. They are born that way, just so you know.

A parent's love, like God's, does not depend on doing the right thing, I will love my children no matter what they do!
However, I disagree with the second part of your statement. Millions of straight people have the "gay gene" and are straight as arrows! Just because 20% of cancer patients have blue eyes doesn't mean blue eyes cause cancer, and just because 20% of people with a certain gene are gay doesn't mean that gene causes it! the science is FAR from conclusive.
"Is Sexual Orientation Fixed at Birth?

The best overall summary of most respected researchers is that homosexuality (like most other psychological conditions) is due to a combination of social, biological, and psychological factors."
http://www.narth.com/docs/bornway.html

My God Bless You and Your Family

And yours as well!
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No. 63
from benr98
Old Jul 11, 2009, 08:14 PM

Default Re: Sadly Gay Male Nurse Stereotype is Not Just Trolls
Originally Posted by spenmom View Post
You know what shocks me most about this conversation, is that in a class of 80, we have 2 openly gay males, and at least 10 times that many openly heterosexual nurses. For the life of me, I can't see why it should matter, as long as boundaries are respected, and quality care is delivered. Of course, there will be some patients who will request another nurse, but that goes for the ESL nurses, the African-American nurses, and the foreign nurses as well, and it is to the detrement of the patient that their ignorance does not allow them to see past the race, color, or orientation of that person. For example, in our class, one of our openly gay males is one I would absolutely trust with my life in a hairy situation. He is that cool, composed, and knowledgable. So, again, ignorance in America is the #1 problem we are facing, the #2 problem being that there is no acknowledgement of the fact that the ignorance is a problem. I was raised in a religion that taught that homosexuality was a sin, yet when I first met a homosexual person decades ago, I couldn't help but see the wonderful gifts and attributes this person had to give to the world, in spite of my religious upbringing.

I don't understand, and never will, the hatred that brings someone to kill another because they are different. I say the more male nurses the better, sexual orientation notwithstanding. They are competent, smart, fun, and every bit as deserving of the opportunitieis as everyone else who wants to be a nurse.

I have also noticed a few of the hetero males in our class mentioning that they took harassment from others saying "why don't you just go to medical school?" Well, these people don't understand that nursing offers more opportunities, better and different patheways to get to different jobs, and overall, is just a more flexible career option. Plus, there is the patient interaction, which none of them would trade for anything--they are all wonderful.

I try to explain this, as I am a female, but still get the "but you're so smart--you should have gone to medical school" I try to tell them that brains have nothing to do with it, it is what you want out of life, and the type of career you want-patient-focused with lots of patient interaction, or lots of responsibility but little contact. Many people don't get this, taking their medical career info from TV shows. Well, they deserve what they get.

Any male who goes into nursing is smarter than any male who goes into medicine, in my opinion--more career opportunities, more career flexibility, and lots of respect from the women, because lord knows we need some Y chromosomes to delete the estrogen!

I am all for males in nursing. I wish there were more, and I advocate to anyone who shows the slightest bit of interest about the perks, the various career paths, the flexibility, and the many, many things you can do with a nursing degree, as well as the graduate programs to pursue.

GO XY!!!!!!!Those who give you trouble are just compensating for their own insecurities about their own penis size and/or sexual orientation. Just my opinion after lots of years of dealing with men with SPS (short penis syndrome), and the IMNG (I'm Not Gay- really) syndrome.

Go men, don't let the losers stand in your way. The profession needs you to bring us to order, bring us a common voice and a common purpose, so that we can organize ourselves for better working conditions, standardized working conditions, etc. Without you, there's just too much estrogen, and no offence to my fellow sisters, we just need the cool, detached decision-making of a male to help us in these times of change!

I realized I just focused on homosexual males, but the same goes for homosexual females--should make no difference. I would be proud to work by any competent homosexual nurse, female, male, transgender, etc. The focus is on competency and work ethic. Personally, I could care less about your personal predilicetions, as long as they are not illegal (child molestation, for example), and as long as they don't interfere with your job, and you are happy. I consider you all my friends, colleagues, and am proud to know you.

Thanks for reading,

A Pro-Gay Mormon nurse
I would say that spenmom hit the nail on the head. I agree with her completely. However the following quote is incorrect.

Originally Posted by NurseGuapo View Post
If you look at the history of nursing, all nurses were male until the 1500-1600's Only when women started to dominate nursing did thos hateful belief in male nurses being subhuman begin. Also, pink was a male color because it was the most flattering on the male and was close to red which was regal and masculine. Blue was a feminine color the represented virginity and purity. Notice that all of the paintings of the virgin Mary she is wearing blue. Not pink. The blue/male phenomenon began in the 20th century with most likely superman and his blue leotard as the inspiration. The desire from boys to wear blue changed the perception of masc and fem colors. and the dominant influence of women in nursing pushed men out of the field to the point that when men started seeing nursing as lucrative it had become taboo for men. It's insane that any prof ession would ever be considered masc or fem. gay or straight. It's stupid esecially concidering that nursing is no longer a profession that's only based on being an asst to a DR. or acting as a nurturer. It's highly technical requiring intellect and critical thinking. It's a science. Something that many prospective nurses don't realize until they are in a nursing program. There were several students in my class who failed out because they didn't take the reality of nursing being a scientific profession seriously. Even after all of the sci. prerq. They thought that once they got into the nursing program they didn't have to think scientificaly anymore.

Males dominated the nursing profession until sometime between the 1920's and the 1940's between WWI and WWII. During the Civil War then President Lincoln had ordered the 60 men of a regiment were nurses and 5 were doctors. Not a single woman fought in the Civil War officially though they did play parts during the war that have nothing to do with this discussion so I will leave that part of history out of this discussion. Also it wasn't until after WWI that a woman was allowed to join the armed forces and when they did during WWII a great many of them were either a nurse or secretary. This also meant that during WWI that men were the nurses in the military hospitals. So this means that some time between 1920 and 1940 through 1960's that if a man was a nurse he was labeled as gay. This blows my mind that in 20 to 40 years of all man kinds history that this profession has been flipped on it head.

Also my wife and I home school our children and we teach them that there is nothing wrong with people who are homosexual. My daughter actually prefers people who are homosexual to straight people as friends, out of all her friends more than half are homosexual. She says she just thinks they are more real than the others trying to hide things. This is my 14 year old daughter saying this. however my 13 year old son would have nothing to do with someone who is homosexual, this I can't explain. All 4 of our children were brought up the same the only thing I can figure out is that it is a peer pressure thing and that hopefully it will go away. Personally I don't care what your sexual preference or the color of your skin as long as it is not green, if your taking care of me or my friend.
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No. 64
from Moogie
Old Jul 11, 2009, 09:19 PM

Default Re: Sadly Gay Male Nurse Stereotype is Not Just Trolls
Originally Posted by benr98 View Post
Personally I don't care what your sexual preference or the color of your skin as long as it is not green, if your taking care of me or my friend.
What's wrong with being green?




Seriously, good post!
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No. 65
from zuzi
Old Jul 11, 2009, 09:45 PM

Default Re: Sadly Gay Male Nurse Stereotype is Not Just Trolls
YES! What is wrong to be green? Green are ALIENS also, lol! PEACE! Spelling english for you darlings... G R E E N!

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No. 66
from NurseGuapo
Old Jul 11, 2009, 10:31 PM

Default Re: Sadly Gay Male Nurse Stereotype is Not Just Trolls
Actually we both are right... I'm not sure which part of my statement you believe is wrong, since I was making two points... the masc/fem colors or the nursing part? Previous to 1900 men dominated... but women started to infiltrate beginning in the 1500s, nurse maids, wet nurses, midwifes, although not a defined set of duties most were assighed household tasks as well as nursing duties, although not technical in any sense.

As women became more commonplace it became less socially acceptable for men to enter the profession. as for the colors pink and blue being reversed for masc/fem the superman therory is widely accepted because of the timeing of the social change.

ANYWOO.. both are trivia, fun facts? The bigotry against males in nursing and against gays is far more distubing.




Males dominated the nursing profession until sometime between the 1920's and the 1940's between WWI and WWII. During the Civil War then President Lincoln had ordered the 60 men of a regiment were nurses and 5 were doctors. Not a single woman fought in the Civil War officially though they did play parts during the war that have nothing to do with this discussion so I will leave that part of history out of this discussion. Also it wasn't until after WWI that a woman was allowed to join the armed forces and when they did during WWII a great many of them were either a nurse or secretary. This also meant that during WWI that men were the nurses in the military hospitals. So this means that some time between 1920 and 1940 through 1960's that if a man was a nurse he was labeled as gay. This blows my mind that in 20 to 40 years of all man kinds history that this profession has been flipped on it head.

Also my wife and I home school our children and we teach them that there is nothing wrong with people who are homosexual. My daughter actually prefers people who are homosexual to straight people as friends, out of all her friends more than half are homosexual. She says she just thinks they are more real than the others trying to hide things. This is my 14 year old daughter saying this. however my 13 year old son would have nothing to do with someone who is homosexual, this I can't explain. All 4 of our children were brought up the same the only thing I can figure out is that it is a peer pressure thing and that hopefully it will go away. Personally I don't care what your sexual preference or the color of your skin as long as it is not green, if your taking care of me or my friend.[/quote]
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No. 67
from NurseGuapo
Old Jul 11, 2009, 11:07 PM

Default Re: Sadly Gay Male Nurse Stereotype is Not Just Trolls
Also... I'm not sure if you are saying that there weren't female nurses pre WWI... but I'm certain that there were. by 1920 there were black doctors and dentist in the US... and as for nurses of any creed.. there were nurses in england and france long before WWI This nurse is sleepy and is too tired to go into details.although I come from a long legacy of nursing predating 1850 all female. WWI helped to bring many women into the field given that men were off in battle... or in hospital recoving .. or in the Syphillis wards from dipping the woowoo in the wrong waawaa. During the Civil war more men were in the infirmary for VD than war wounds. same during the American Revolution. aAlthough this info/history wouldn't be in a K-12 homeschool curricullum. Unless your kids are being taught with mine. I don't see te taboo or diffference between STD's and other diseases both are microbes and are unhealthy.. I know it was never implied.. ust a point... PK i'm so tired I can't spell.. Nite friends
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No. 68
from benr98
Old Jul 12, 2009, 07:50 AM

Default Re: Sadly Gay Male Nurse Stereotype is Not Just Trolls
No I was just stating that up until about WWI that there were many male nurses and that battle field instances the nurses were male only. Famale nurses weren't allowed in battle field situations (MASH Hospitals) until around the Veatnam/Korean wars. During WWII Female nurses were allowed in military hospitals but not in the battle fields. Female nurses have been around a lot longer but the male nurse faded out somewere between WWI and WWII. During WWII male nurses were called corman if I remember correctly and they disappeared after that point until about the 1960's - 1970"s.

Sorry I meant green/ill not green color....LOL
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No. 69
from Moogie
Old Jul 12, 2009, 04:23 PM

Default Re: Sadly Gay Male Nurse Stereotype is Not Just Trolls
Originally Posted by benr98 View Post
Sorry I meant green/ill not green color....LOL
Kermit forgives you. (But he didn't tell Miss Piggy about the incident, so you should be safe from her wrath.)





But just so you never, ever make anti-green comments again, here's a link for you.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/F...483/green.html
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