Al Gore/solving global warming for years.

**Elvish** · Nov 17, 2009, 09:55 AM

I agree with Tweets - we are going to have to sacrifice something, as much as it goes against our nature as human beings. We don't like to give up our comforts (I know I don't) and the thought of changing a habit that's long since died hard, sometimes I think I'd rather have my fingernails ripped out. (Ok...that's an exaggeration :chuckle )

But eventually we are all going to have to make some changes. Not just Al Gore. I can't worry about what he's doing while he's not busy inventing the internet

....I only have to answer for what I'm doing. The truth is we all can do something. Tweety makes a great point about the meat industry.

*heron* · Nov 17, 2009, 10:21 AM

Besides, talk about writing a check our children can't cash! Agree with Tweety ... deal with it now or our children and grandchildren will deal with it later.

*Spidey's mom* · Nov 17, 2009, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by heron

Besides, talk about writing a check our children can't cash! Agree with Tweety ... deal with it now or our children and grandchildren will deal with it later.

Are you talking about the cost of the health care bill?

steph

*heron* · Nov 17, 2009, 10:50 AM

Consider the rise in rates of cancer, allergies and immune system dysfunction ... imagine similar rises in other environmentally-mediated (not proven but not disproven, either) health issues.

Couple that with the indolent ill-health that results from poor-quality food, contaminated water and literally tons of synthetic substances we pour down our throat.

Pile all of that on top of the genetic disorders and severe birth defects that can be either caused or aggravated by environmental degradation ...

Embed all of that in a context of a constantly expanding population ...

... yes, I guess you could say I'm talking about the cost of the health care bill.

**VivaLasViejas** · Nov 17, 2009, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Spidey's mom

For Marla:

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us

Upset about FirstEnergy's pricey, hand-delivered light bulbs? You ain't seen nothing yet -- Kevin O'Brien

Steph........you ROCK!!!

"enviro-thuggery".......gonna have to remember that one in the future when I go to the store and can't find light bulbs that actually LIGHT the room or dishwasher tabs that actually clean my dishes.

*heron* · Nov 18, 2009, 11:38 AM

Know-nothing is not a survival trait. Name-calling does not solve any problems.

Willful ignorance is just plain stupid ... and it's your children who'll suffer because you just had to have the noonday sun at midnight ... cheap ... no matter what other life is being destroyed in the process.

http://www.salon.com/news/global_war..._and_champagne

A 3700-year old bristlecone pine cannot lie

Rising temps are forcing plants to adapt, whether they want to or not. But humans have brains -- let's use them!
By Andrew Leonard

A couple of things to think about while mulling over the news that any action, (or even debate) on a U.S. climate bill has been pushed to next year.
From the abstract for" Recent unprecedented tree-ring growth in bristlecone pine at the highest elevations and possible causes," published this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences:

Great Basin bristlecone pine (Pinus longaeva) at 3 sites in western North America near the upper elevation limit of tree growth showed ring growth in the second half of the 20th century that was greater than during any other 50-year period in the last 3,700 years. The accelerated growth is suggestive of an environmental change unprecedented in millennia.

RealClimate offers an accessible summary. Bristlecone pines are quite popular with paleoclimatologists who specialize in analyzing tree rings because they live for thousands of years. The bottom line -- in recent decades, bristlecones have responded dramatically to warmer temperatures. ...

... One of the key things that separates humans from most other animals is that our brains feature highly developed frontal lobes that enable us to think about the future and take proactive action to ward off misfortune. A bristlecone pine or a grapevine can't do that. But we can. We can adapt the hard way, by letting climate change wreak havoc, or the easy way, by doing what we can to give us more of a chance to properly adapt -- and maybe, just maybe, keep champagne in Champagne.

Since this subject concerns my own religion, I tend to take being called a thug fairly personally. There's much to talk about regarding bullying tactics and intellectual arrogance on the part of "greenies" ... just be aware that when you talk about this, you're also talking about my spiritual practice and ease off on the pejorative labels, OK?

**VivaLasViejas** · Nov 18, 2009, 12:54 PM

Those were not my words originally, and no one is calling ANYONE names....unless of course you are inferring that I am 'stupid' and a 'know-nothing'.

We've had this discussion before, and we are both grown-up enough to know that we can disagree without being disagreeable. Let us leave it at that.

*heron* · Nov 18, 2009, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by VivaLasViejas

Steph........you ROCK!!!

"enviro-thuggery".......gonna have to remember that one in the future when I go to the store and can't find light bulbs that actually LIGHT the room or dishwasher tabs that actually clean my dishes.

Originally Posted by VivaLasViejas

Those were not my words originally, and no one is calling ANYONE names....unless of course you are inferring that I am 'stupid' and a 'know-nothing'.

We've had this discussion before, and we are both grown-up enough to know that we can disagree without being disagreeable. Let us leave it at that.

Then why did you applaud?

And, yes, we had this discussion before ... which is why I expected you to know better.

*Abuelita* · Nov 18, 2009, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by heron

Know-nothing is not a survival trait. Name-calling does not solve any problems.

Willful ignorance is just plain stupid ... and it's your children who'll suffer because you just had to have the noonday sun at midnight ... cheap ... no matter what other life is being destroyed in the process.

http://www.salon.com/news/global_war..._and_champagne

A 3700-year old bristlecone pine cannot lie

Rising temps are forcing plants to adapt, whether they want to or not. But humans have brains -- let's use them!
By Andrew Leonard

A couple of things to think about while mulling over the news that any action, (or even debate) on a U.S. climate bill has been pushed to next year.
From the abstract for" Recent unprecedented tree-ring growth in bristlecone pine at the highest elevations and possible causes," published this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences:
Great Basin bristlecone pine (Pinus longaeva) at 3 sites in western North America near the upper elevation limit of tree growth showed ring growth in the second half of the 20th century that was greater than during any other 50-year period in the last 3,700 years. The accelerated growth is suggestive of an environmental change unprecedented in millennia.

RealClimate offers an accessible summary. Bristlecone pines are quite popular with paleoclimatologists who specialize in analyzing tree rings because they live for thousands of years. The bottom line -- in recent decades, bristlecones have responded dramatically to warmer temperatures. ...

... One of the key things that separates humans from most other animals is that our brains feature highly developed frontal lobes that enable us to think about the future and take proactive action to ward off misfortune. A bristlecone pine or a grapevine can't do that. But we can. We can adapt the hard way, by letting climate change wreak havoc, or the easy way, by doing what we can to give us more of a chance to properly adapt -- and maybe, just maybe, keep champagne in Champagne.

Since this subject concerns my own religion, I tend to take being called a thug fairly personally. There's much to talk about regarding bullying tactics and intellectual arrogance on the part of "greenies" ... just be aware that when you talk about this, you're also talking about my spiritual practice and ease off on the pejorative labels, OK?

Wow, that's pretty harsh. No one called anybody a thug.

It looks to me like you just did the same thing you're accusing VLV of doing by hinting that she is ignorant. And what are people supposed to do, ask permission before they post an opinion that doesn't square with yours for fear of offending you on religious grounds?

I suggest you review your own signature line before calling someone out simply for posting something you don't like. Peace out.

*heron* · Nov 18, 2009, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Abuelita

Wow, that's pretty harsh. No one called anybody a thug.

It looks to me like you just did the same thing you're accusing VLV of doing by hinting that she is ignorant. And what are people supposed to do, ask permission before they post an opinion that doesn't square with yours for fear of offending you on religious grounds?

I suggest you review your own signature line before calling someone out simply for posting something you don't like. Peace out.

And I suggest you re-read the post before you chastise me.

I objected to being called a nasty name. I am an environmentalist and it's integral to my religious practice. The canard VLV was applauding was both untrue of me and more hurtful because she and I have already discussed why I take it personally. When you are spewing out blanket insults, you are insulting me.

And, yes ... I expect religious grounds to be respected. Note that I did not say "agreed with" ... and the first step in that is realizing that there is religious principle involved in the first place ... and for more people than just me. I demand the same of myself when discussing topics that have religious implications for others.

What I said is that the know-nothing attitude is not a survival trait ... the last quoted paragraph explains why.

And insisting on having anything and everything we want, cheap and regardless of the harm it does, is stupid. So is smoking, driving recklessly, shooting heroin and cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If VLV is insisting that environmentalists are just "enviro-thugs" without looking at the evidence supporting what they're saying ... that's willful ignorance. Only she knows whether she really looked at any evidence at all ... no way to tell from her post.

And I didn't ask that anyone stop posting their own opinions ... just lay off the indiscriminate name-calling.

Al Gore/solving global warming for years.

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