Clinton Or Obama? or anybody else: Who will best defend healthcare ?

I think that is a great summation.

The difficulty lies in separating health care from other goods and services. One argument begins with "Since health care is effectively a service with associated consumable items, and we operate under a capitalist society, then HC should be turned over to the free market forces which govern other services."

The counter-argument is that HC IS NOT a service, per se, but an inherent right, and by denying HC to any American citizen is in fact denying them "life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness."

I think the idea that either one of these polarized viewpoints will never yield a productive solution, because while we, the people using and providing HC argue about how it should be managed, the rich "owners" of insurance etc, are reaping profits while some people don't get the care they need.

Sorry about the long rants - but this issue get me fired up!

Democrats do not hold the answer to our health care problem. The health care system has become its own worst enemy along with insurance companies. More accountability by hospitals, patients and health care workers would go a long way in helping. Providing free care to those who take from the government coffers is not right. Too often, welfare recipients use the ER as there personal doctors office and never pay up. They refuse to pay there hospital bills, but they own plasma TV's and $400 Black Berries. Something is wrong with this picture.
My Father was in the ER several months ago with pneumonia. Out of eight patients in the ER that night, my Father was the only person who had private insurance. The other seven people had no insurance at all or were milking the government bosom.
Solve the welfare problem and you'll fix the health care problem.

You can be the average hard-working class individual with private insurance and then poof, something horrific involving your health happens. Your insurance caps, you're short-term disability and long-term disability run out. Your 401k and bank accounts deplete and then what? Espicially if this is happening to you.

It's easy to judge others lives and motives without ever knowing or understanding their situation.

As I said, we need reform. However, providing health care to those who are too lazy to work is wrong. I put myself through nursing school, uninsured. My wife, son and I are still uninsured until I graduate in May and work for my insurance. I refused to be put on the government bosom. My son needed ABX, so we asked our church who contacted a local Catholic doctor who provided them at a discount.

I agree with you that there are some folks who abuse the welfare system, large corporational occupations,etc.etc. Yes, reform can help against this.

My point is that when you are working a paying for your insurance it will be mandated that monies be taken for SS, Medicare,etc. And that will happen whether it is a democrat or republican in office.

So really, who is ultimately going to initiate the reform? Individual states, Republicans, Democrats?

I think it is wonderful that the church was able to help your child with an antibiotic. If a trauma was to unexpectedly happen and you needed help would you turn it down because of your reform views? IMO, we need to keep an open mind and that includes change and reform.

Best of luck in your schooling and career.

I am sure if your family or you needed to you would go to the ER. Or would be taken there by ambulance.
As a taxpayer for 48 years I want to contribute the the life and health of my fellow people.
Yes I donate to a free clinic and midnight mission but sometimes people need nursing care in a hospital.
I think we should all share the risk together.

I think states like the status quo, as long as feds keep sending in funds.

Republicans just dont seem to care about it. At least thats the feeling I get.

Democrats may not have the answer, but at least they are stepping up to the plate to give it a try.Of course if they fail, they can always blame it on the republicans.

There may come a day in which you may find yourself in a situation you never expected, dont be so quick to judge .

Doctors provide medications with "samples" given to them from pharmeceutical companies. I have never heard of a doctor selling an antibiotic. Has anyone else?

My point is that you received help, you truly needed that help for your child, and someone was there to provide that service to you. I believe it's called compassion.

After reading the last few pages, I couldn't help but chip in.. sorry in advance.. as a student watching my future career possibly spin down the drain due to who gets elected.. it's easy to say I'm pretty passionate about all of this Everyone is offering "solutions" and "promises", but not talking about:

A) Where the money will come from (Walmart and pharma companies won't be paying for it - we will with our salaries and jobs)
B) What's currently wrong with government in our healthcare (HMO's, pharma lobbies, etc.)

Before I got into healthcare, I viewed the democrats as the answer to our current "republicans". It wasn't until I started hearing more about Dr. Ron Paul that I remembered that Republican means LESS government or at least LESS government in our day to day lives.

But now that they control congress, nothing is still changing. They're just like the last batch of bad guys - so worried about votes and the election that they aren't doing much at all to change what they complained about several months ago :angryfire

This was posted in the CRNA forum but I think it still applies. It regards the candidate that's been mentioned a couple times in this thread, Dr. Ron Paul, who isn't in the original poll.

http://allnurses.com/forums/f227/uni...ml#post2562343

He's been in the news a lot more because:

1) He has the most support from the soldiers overseas
2) He has the most "grass-roots" support from folks who are just getting into politics or folks that felt that their votes didn't matter before
3) He just beat the previous record for most money raised in a single day EVER - and he wasn't even involved, it was all his supporters doing the work for him.
4) People like me who never got motivated to vote before, are finding out that sometimes REAL people actually run for office.. not just the ones that seemed "groomed" for the position.


To answer the OP, I don't think HIllary OR Obama will help us. If you watch these videos, you'll see why. We're running into such debt that there's simply no way we could affordably maintain a universal healthcare system that beats our current system, which is already HEAVILY flawed.

We saw a huge hurricane coming, saw it breaking levys, and it we STILL had the Katrina disaster. That was AFTER we supposedly had a department JUST FOR "homeland security". I didn't feel too secure after that. THat wasn't a 9/11, it was a slow moving hurricane that we tracked every 5 minutes. It was like 9/11 in slo-mo and the government still did nothing.

If they can't help protect against THAT.. I just don't see how they can reliably help our middle class folks who are working hard, paying for crappy insurance, and who need life-saving procedures. Dick Cheney didn't have to go on a waiting list for heart surgery. But your son or daughter will.

I was going to vote for Obama a few months ago until I started reading the YouTube candidate page. They've got videos of the candidates on certain issues. Obama is a GREAT speaker. Reminds me of a black clinton. But I kind of get a woody when Ron Paul speaks because he sounds like someone who truly knows what he's talking about. Less politics and flair, and more substance and truth.

Being a doctor for 30 years.. I think he also has a unique amount of experience on what is best not only for the nation with healthcare, but for professionals IN the business. I don't want the government running my career. I want competition, I want competitive pay, I want good benefits. Most of all, I want to be able to do what's going to be best for the PATIENT and NOT what some HMO/government says is best.

From the link above, here are a few of the videos that REALLY got me nodding my head and agreeing with Paul. I don't agree with him on EVERYTHING.. but he seems like the only guy in the bunch who isn't saying stuff to make me happy, but who can actually get solid numbers to back stuff up as well:



Sorry if this sounds passionate.. but I really am fired up on this issue.

I don't want the government telling me what I can do and what I can't do for a patient. I don't want to have to get approval to help save a dying patient and then watch them die because we couldn't get an approval code for an operation or procedure or something else.

We've got a war we're already in debt over.

We've got a super expensive drug war costing us TRILLIONS so we can keep pot illegal while dangerous drugs like alcohol and nicotine kill millions.

We've got an immigration problem with no end in sight.

If we suddenly had enough money on hand to stop all those AND do healthcare.. I'd possibly entertain some discussion on it.. but we're already borrowing money we DON'T HAVE right now to do the above. How on EARTH will we also afford universal healthcare?

Sorry.. I'll give the thread back lol.. like I said.. I'll spend the rest of my working days in this career. I'll do anything to help defend it. As I get older I'll need to use it more and more.. and sitting on a waiting list for months to get an EKG when I start having early signs of heart issues isn't my idea of good care. Every person that dies on a waiting list for something that could have been done sooner, is a victim murdered by the government's intervention into medicine.