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The GOP’s Paranoid Foreign Policy



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No. 10
Old May 18, 2009, 08:44 PM
Updated May 18, 2009 at 08:50 PM by Spidey's mom

Default Re: The GOP’s Paranoid Foreign Policy
You know - you make these generalizations and judgment based on your supposed knowledge of those of us who call ourselves conservatives. And they are baseless.

You don't know me. So how could you know that I'm volunteering at the first Homeless Connect Event in my area where medical and dental and all kinds of folks from all walks of life are volunteering to take care of our homeless population.

http://anewscafe.com/2009/04/29/proj...ing-on-may-19/

How could you know of any of the other many ways in which my fellow conservatives and I reach out to help? How meanspirited of you (what you accuse "right wingers" of being) to chastise conservatives when you don't know us?

Also, conservatives are more apt to support community organizing to help rather than rely on the government. That is not a bad thing. We get characterized as not caring simply because we think the government is NOT the right entity to do that job effectively.

The difference between liberals and conservatives is SIMPLY the way in which we think problems could best be solved. It has nothing to do with not realizing the problems are there.

steph
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No. 11
Old May 18, 2009, 08:48 PM

Default Re: The GOP’s Paranoid Foreign Policy
Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
Yikes.

.

Yeah . ... my: scary . . . isn't it?

And to think . .. I used to be liberal too.

Oh the horror . . .



steph
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No. 12
from Agrippa
Old May 18, 2009, 09:19 PM

Default Re: The GOP’s Paranoid Foreign Policy
Originally Posted by Spidey's mom View Post
You know - you make these generalizations and judgment based on your supposed knowledge of those of us who call ourselves conservatives. And they are baseless.

You don't know me. So how could you know that I'm volunteering at the first Homeless Connect Event in my area where medical and dental and all kinds of folks from all walks of life are volunteering to take care of our homeless population.

http://anewscafe.com/2009/04/29/proj...ing-on-may-19/

How could you know of any of the other many ways in which my fellow conservatives and I reach out to help? How meanspirited of you (what you accuse "right wingers" of being) to chastise conservatives when you don't know us?

Also, conservatives are more apt to support community organizing to help rather than rely on the government. That is not a bad thing. We get characterized as not caring simply because we think the government is NOT the right entity to do that job effectively.

The difference between liberals and conservatives is SIMPLY the way in which we think problems could best be solved. It has nothing to do with not realizing the problems are there.

steph

Steph, I dont know you. Nor did I specifically attribute anything to you. I talked of my observations of "some" factions of the conservative party. If you felt that this also included you, im sorry.

But in general, yes. I really believe in my observations of some of the more radical sections of the GOP. The ones that oppose stem cell research. The ones that teach "abstinence only" education. The ones that want assault rifles with 200 round magazines (or beta mags as my gun loving liberal friend calls them). The GOP talks Jesus but walks corporate and somehow people vote for these politicians at their own peril.

The difference between liberals and conservatives is in how we think problems could be best solved. However, the ramifications of these differences are tremendous as we've seen recently. These differences lead nations to war, unravel economies, impead scientific progress, and reach out to all sectors of our society. Politics is a serious matter not to be taken lightly.

And as a liberal, I'm sick of seeing all these militaristic Republicans polluting our public sphere with their vitriol and ignorance. I mad and I won't stand for it anymore. Cause if its one thing I'll give the GOP credit for is their perseverence and discipline. Progressives are now ready to stand up make this country great again.
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No. 13
Old May 18, 2009, 09:43 PM

Default Re: The GOP’s Paranoid Foreign Policy
Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
Steph, I dont know you. Nor did I specifically attribute anything to you. I talked of my observations of "some" factions of the conservative party. If you felt that this also included you, im sorry.

I've been a conservative for about . . oh . . 23 years. I truly was liberal prior to that. It is more complicated than you make it sound. I married into a farming and logging family which opened my eyes much wider to the implications of how much government interference keeps these families from making a living. I'm surrounded by liberals and conservative and libertarians and they all show great love for one another. The conservatives I know are just as compassionate and giving as anyone else.

But in general, yes. I really believe in my observations of some of the more radical sections of the GOP. The ones that oppose stem cell research. The ones that teach "abstinence only" education. The ones that want assault rifles with 200 round magazines (or beta mags as my gun loving liberal friend calls them). The GOP talks Jesus but walks corporate and somehow people vote for these politicians at their own peril.

Some of us believe that life begins at conception - not exactly a terrible thing to think. Simply a difference of opinion from pro-choice folks (and I used to be pro-choice). We are not in favor of using tax money to fund embryonic stem cell research. A big difference than to say we "oppose stem cell research". You and I could disagree about this - but it doesn't make either one of us a bad person. And yes, some in the GOP talk Jesus and walk another path but then so do some Democrats (Nancy Pelosi comes to mind).

The difference between liberals and conservatives is in how we think problems could be best solved. However, the ramifications of these differences are tremendous as we've seen recently. These differences lead nations to war, unravel economies, impead scientific progress, and reach out to all sectors of our society. Politics is a serious matter not to be taken lightly.

My take on the matter is today's liberal policies tend toward socialism and that is a serious matter not to be taken lightly. I think not paying attention to what is going in in the world can also lead us toward war. I think adding trillions to the deficit and spending so much money that we can't afford to spend is also going to unravel our economy. I think we impede scientific progress when we don't open our minds to all sides of the issue and look at the real evidence without hanging on for dear life to a political agenda (and all sides do this). I think this reaches all sectors of our society.

And as a liberal, I'm sick of seeing all these militaristic Republicans polluting our public sphere with their vitriol and ignorance. I mad and I won't stand for it anymore. Cause if its one thing I'll give the GOP credit for is their perseverence and discipline. Progressives are now ready to stand up make this country great again.

Well, as a conservative I'm sick of seeing some liberals spew their vitriol and ignorance too. There are very hateful folks on your side of the aisle too. I'm mad too. I won't take being mischaracterized anymore.


You may try to get off the hook a bit here by saying you didn't mean me. But you did - remember, I've listened to Rush for a long time . I like Dick Cheney. I love Star Parker. I respect Thomas Sowell. I admire Ronald Reagan. . . . . you did mean me when you paint conservatives the way you did.

steph
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No. 14
from Agrippa
Old May 18, 2009, 10:08 PM
Updated May 18, 2009 at 10:14 PM by Agrippa

Default Re: The GOP’s Paranoid Foreign Policy
Originally Posted by Spidey's mom View Post
You may try to get off the hook a bit here by saying you didn't mean me. But you did - remember, I've listened to Rush for a long time . I like Dick Cheney. I love Star Parker. I respect Thomas Sowell. I admire Ronald Reagan. . . . . you did mean me when you paint conservatives the way you did.

steph

Well you're the only one that can determine that so I'll take your word for it.

I'm actually pro-life. But I mean it. I'm worried about the child from conception until he/she is an adult. What I see in the pro-life movement is that what they really mean is pro-birth. After that they don't seem to care too much. I am not for pumping out all these babies regardless of what their socioeconomic, mental, and basic environmental conditions will be at home.

Then theres the issue of rape, incest, child pregnancy, the health of the mother, etc. Anyway, as you can see the issue of abortion is complicated and very nuanced and is another topic of its own. I for one think its overblown and that its just a political football used to wedge the electorate. There are more important matters at hand.

The boogie man word of Socialism comes up often as in this case. I think that this is a very nebulous word that many conservatives use interchangeably with commie, pinko, unpatriotic, anti-American, etc. So lets get it clear.

Socialism is the control of all the means of production in a country by the government. The government also distributes the goods of the production instead of using free-market principles. If the government is a single person, its a socialist totalitarianism. If its a group of people its a socialist oligarchy. If its democratically elected, its a socialist democracy. Lets get that clear.

Now a simple crash course in social contract will reveal the basic functions of any sort of society. One of the reasons for supporting such a social contract/government is the collective organization, specialization, and economy of scale we see when we centralize and streamline certain services. For example, lets say the military. If there was any example of a truly socialized organization it is the military. As a soldier you are trained and assigned duties. In return, all of your needs are accounted for. There is a clear chain of command and decisions are made by this hierarchy and ultimately by a few senior officials (so it is more like a socialist oligarchy). Anyway, I don't want to write a dissertation - so basically we approve the use of our taxes to fund a single military. If every community (divided up in whatever many ways people can divide them up into) in the country decided to make their own military, this would clearly be foolish.

Another example is FDA or the EPA. The government takes on the role of protecting us from dangerous drugs, chemical spills etc. Even with such regulatory bodies, we still see regular catastrophes (think Vioxx, Heparin, contaminated water, etc). Think of how bad it would be if we allowed the free market to sort out such problems.

Some things do simply work better when the government takes a role. So exactly what is it that you're afraid of? What "radical socialist" policies of the Democrats are you so deftly afraid of? I mean, the way many extreme right wingers seem to characterize the Democrats makes it sound like Joe Biden, Che Guevara, and Stalin are going to factories across the country to seize the means of protection.

I mean c'mon...reallY?
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No. 15
Old May 18, 2009, 10:58 PM

Default Re: The GOP’s Paranoid Foreign Policy
Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
Well you're the only one that can determine that so I'll take your word for it.

I'm actually pro-life. But I mean it. I'm worried about the child from conception until he/she is an adult. What I see in the pro-life movement is that what they really mean is pro-birth. After that they don't seem to care too much. I am not for pumping out all these babies regardless of what their socioeconomic, mental, and basic environmental conditions will be at home.
I have simply got to get to bed as I have to be up at 5 a.m. to get down the mountain by 7:30 for the Homeless Event.

But this issue has been discussed at length here on allnurses - granted you may not have seen them. However, I have in these discussions brought forth many many examples of Christians who reach out to women with unintended pregnancies from conception to birth and beyond.

The idea that Christians give up when the babies are born is a myth.

As to the rest . .. . . I simply have to let it go until a later time. But thanks for chatting with me. I do love these threads even though sometimes it feels like I should be called a glutton for punishment.


Goodnight.

steph

p.s. Our pastor is preaching from Acts . .. and my bible class at the university just covered Paul and Agrippa.
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No. 16
from Agrippa
Old May 19, 2009, 09:20 PM

Default Re: The GOP’s Paranoid Foreign Policy
Originally Posted by Spidey's mom View Post

The idea that Christians give up when the babies are born is a myth.

As to the rest . .. . . I simply have to let it go until a later time. But thanks for chatting with me. I do love these threads even though sometimes it feels like I should be called a glutton for punishment.


Goodnight.

steph

p.s. Our pastor is preaching from Acts . .. and my bible class at the university just covered Paul and Agrippa.
I didn't know we were talking about Christians - I was talking about Republicans. They're "pro-life" but support the death penalty, want to cut any program that help people like young at risk single mothers, and would rather teach abstinence only education.

Like I said, the GOP's policies (not christians nor all "conservatives") on abortion is not pro-life, its pro-birth. Anything relating to the social care programs of children after birth is labeled as pinko, commie, socialism. They don't want to give their taxes to "the entitled people" - which is code word for certain demographics of our society. And as a Rush Limbaugh listener, Im sure you know what I mean.
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No. 17
Old May 19, 2009, 11:23 PM

Default Re: The GOP’s Paranoid Foreign Policy
Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
I didn't know we were talking about Christians - I was talking about Republicans.
It's very difficult to ever actually figure out what you are talking about, and it was you that said this; "The GOP talks Jesus but walks corporate..."

Now you try to be surprised about a Christian reference.

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No. 18
Old May 20, 2009, 07:58 AM

Default Re: The GOP’s Paranoid Foreign Policy
Originally Posted by Honnête et Sérieux View Post
It's very difficult to ever actually figure out what you are talking about, and it was you that said this; "The GOP talks Jesus but walks corporate..."

Now you try to be surprised about a Christian reference.

I think that is where I was going too . .. .

Sorry if you only meant Republicans and not Christians Agrippa.

Agrippa will have to wait though . . . I've got so much homework, I've got my hospice meeting, I've got to drive way down the mountain to class . . .. but I'll be back.

The Homeless Connect event was amazing by the way. So much organization, so many folks showed up to volunteer. One of the truly cool things was that a local humane society came with a Veterinarian to give physicals and vaccinations to the pets of the people who came for help. And some local hairdressers and barbers showed up to give free haircuts. Not to mention all the food that was donated and the bbq and the live band playing old classic rock songs and the agencies that helped with housing and getting their birth certificates and signing them up for financial help. Very very cool. I loved it.

later . . . steph
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No. 19
from Agrippa
Old May 20, 2009, 08:04 AM

Default Re: The GOP’s Paranoid Foreign Policy
Originally Posted by Honnête et Sérieux View Post
It's very difficult to ever actually figure out what you are talking about, and it was you that said this; "The GOP talks Jesus but walks corporate..."

Now you try to be surprised about a Christian reference.


Yes, the fact that the GOP claims a monopoly on God doesn't make it so. They "talk" Jesus (as in supposedly claims to support and life Christian teachings) but doesn't back it up.

Thus, I'm commenting on GOP policies and their Christian hypocrisy. I'm not attributing Christians to GOP policies. Just because I talk about Christians and the GOP in the same sentence doesn't mean that I am equating them as the same. On the contrary, my whole point of mentioning them in the same sentence is to differentiate them.

If you decided to think about it a little bit more you just might have comprehended this. Its not that difficult to understand...
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