Use of Force For the Protection of the Unborn Act

Atheos · Apr 03, 2009 06:20 PM

OKLAHOMA CITY -- A bill in the Oklahoma Legislature would allow pregnant women to use deadly force in order to save the lives of their babies.

The bill stems from a Michigan case where a woman who was carrying quadruplets stabbed and killed her boyfriend after he hit her in the stomach. The woman lost the babies and was convicted of manslaughter.Oklahoma lawmakers said they want to make sure that a woman can legally protect her unborn child."Unfortunately, we feel we need legislation like this," said Rep. Mike Thompson. "What we want to make sure is that a woman feels safe and secure defending herself and her unborn child against any attacker."

-Sorry if this is the wrong area. Not sure if it should be in CE or Politics though it is about a law...

Absolutely13 · Apr 03, 2009, 06:33 PM

What a nightmare all the way around.

Everybody should be able to protect themselves. I don't know what Michigan is thinking.

*leslie :-D* · Apr 03, 2009, 07:04 PM

i find it ironic there's a law that a woman can protect her baby but no law against a woman killing it.
i dunno know...
it just struck me as satirical.

leslie

*dria* · Apr 04, 2009, 05:50 PM

Ah, don't forget Leslie...it's her body her choice...

*marachne* · Apr 04, 2009, 07:56 PM

I don't know, this sounds too much like another effort to legitimize and solidify the idea of fetus' being "babies," and therefore using that argument to limit a woman's control over her body.

Self-defense could just as easily be argued -- fear of grievous bodily harm, which this would certainly qualify for.

Darn, this is the second time I've written this -- it got ate the last time. I do suspect, if this post gets noticed it will receive some strong reactions. If I am not around to respond, it's because I am finally doing my dissertation research, and I am up to my neck in interviews, observations, and transcribing purgatory, so I'm just not around AN so much.

It's interesting how the allure of a place like AN is lessened when the work becomes challenging, fascinating, and fun

-- miriam

*flightnurse2b* · Apr 04, 2009, 08:04 PM

weird...

and how sad for that woman in michigan to have lost her babies @ the hands of her bf... although there has to be more of the story to justify killing him. if he hit her while she was pregnant, he probably hit her before she conceived and probably would have continued to after her delivery. she probably had enough abuse.

i thought self-defense was already a reason to use deadly force...being prego doesn't have much to do with it.

Atheos · Apr 04, 2009, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by marachne

I don't know, this sounds too much like another effort to legitimize and solidify the idea of fetus' being "babies," and therefore using that argument to limit a woman's control over her body.

Not really. If a woman is pregnant and you kill her you get charged for a double homicide in every jurisdiction in America. Also, if you kick a woman in the stomach causing her to abort you can be charged with homicide in some jurisdictions. I think this only extends that.

Self-defense could just as easily be argued -- fear of grievous bodily harm, which this would certainly qualify for.

This doesn't fly. Fear of grievous harm DOES NOT qualify you for the self defense plea. You have to have a 'fear for your life.' Up until know the husband can beat the bejeesus out of your stomach which WON'T kill you but will kill the baby. Now assaulting the fetus directly qualifies you to act in self defense.

You can't kill someone and claim fear of 'grievous injury.' You'll go to jail.

The prosecutor will say because you feared injury you DIDN'T fear death.

Atheos · Apr 04, 2009, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by flightnurse2b

i thought self-defense was already a reason to use deadly force...being prego doesn't have much to do with it.

To qualify for self defense you have to have a reasonable fear that they are going to kill you right then.

If someone stabs you and then runs away and you shoot them while they are running you will be charged with murder in many jurisdictions.

If they are standing 20 feet away and walking towards you with a knife and you shoot them you will go to jail.

You have to be in IMMEDIATE danger.

Some prosecutors may let it fly but many times you'll see people on tv getting convicted.

Now there are some state's that have laws concerning homes and abused women and such that change the equation but you would be wise to find out your state's laws on self defense.

If I told you I would beat your #^% and proceeded to do so and you stabbed me to death you'd go to jail.

If you empty a gun's clip and reload you go to jail. It's not as simple as some people think.

*Grace Oz* · Apr 04, 2009, 09:13 PM

Well I'll tell you one thing for free ....... if you're twenty feet away and walking towards me with a knife and I've got a gun, you'd better believe I'd shoot you if it meant my life!
Let 'em throw me in gaol all they like ... I can always teach the other inmates how to throw a boomerang or roll bandages! At least I'd still be alive!

Atheos · Apr 04, 2009, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Grace Oz

Well I'll tell you one thing for free ....... if you're twenty feet away and walking towards me with a knife and I've got a gun, you'd better believe I'd shoot you if it meant my life!
Let 'em throw me in gaol all they like ... I can always teach the other inmates how to throw a boomerang or roll bandages! At least I'd still be alive!

Well if the perp was walking you could at least wait until he got closer. Not only would it spare you the jail you could get a better look at his face when you sent him to the great beyond!

Besides, I don't think you would like American prisons.

Use of Force For the Protection of the Unborn Act

Use of Force For the Protection of the Unborn Act

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