Did You Know?
allnurses is the largest community for nurses on the web. We now have 406,586 members! Join today to learn, network, laugh, and share with nurses.
| No. 30 |
Apr 05, 2009, 05:16 AM
Re: Why should illegal immigrants get tuition breaks? Originally Posted by Elvish This is going to get personal - I can feel it coming - but for so many people there is no legal way for them to get here. The laws a couple generations ago were far less cumbersome, far more open, and far less complicated.
At this point in time, if you are trying to get here on anything less than a first-degree relative visa, an extraordinary talent visa, or a category of workers that the US is desperately short of, guess what? You are out of luck. I'm sorry, but the whole "My family did it XYZ way" argument kind of grates on my nerves for a couple reasons:
1) Aforementioned reason that the laws were different 50, 30, or even 20 years ago.
2) Plenty of undocumented immigrant families struggle, do without, and learn English too. That is not unique to 'legal' immigrants.
3) If you happen to be from a third-world country it happens to be far more difficult to get here than if you are from, say, Norway.
My husband came here without a visa, illegally. That was nine years ago. We got married. We've been married for seven years. He still has nothing. Under current immigration law, he can get nothing. We have tried to do everything right. We are doing everything we possibly can to make things right. But, until the law changes, we can not do a damn thing. Yes - if we had things to go back and do over again, we'd do a few things differently. But is that not true for every single person on the planet? I am getting sick of being crucified over and over and over for one decision made almost a decade ago.
The people that get so demonized in the media happen to be my friends and family, and I take it personally when they get talked about. I have said this for years - make it easier for people to get here legally, and you won't have the problem you have. Child of an illegal immigrant = my son.
I cannot see how withholding education from them is going to benefit them or us. I'd be ok with not having instate tuition as long as they qualify for the same financial aid.
Elvish, I am sorry for your family's plight, but it does not change my mind.
No one is withholding education, I just say they should not get the tuition break. They are not even a legal resident of the COUNTRY much less the state, so how can they qualify for instate tuition.
| | No. 31 |
Apr 05, 2009, 06:05 AM
Re: Why should illegal immigrants get tuition breaks? Originally Posted by Absolutely13 I'm focused on the inconsistencies of the arguement. I might ask you to switch from transmit to receive to get the full spectrum of opinion.
Nothing inconsistent about my argument.
It's wrong. Both the manner in which this vote was conducted, and the extension of domestic benefits to non-citizens.
| | No. 32 |
Apr 05, 2009, 07:09 AM
Updated
Apr 05, 2009 at 08:02 AM by Elvish
Re: Why should illegal immigrants get tuition breaks? Originally Posted by elthia No one is withholding education, I just say they should not get the tuition break. They are not even a legal resident of the COUNTRY much less the state, so how can they qualify for instate tuition.
But it is not exactly like THEY made the choice to come here. And it's not like undocumented folks here have it any easier financially - for pete's sake they are the ones picking our cucumbers and taking care of our kids and slaughtering our livestock for minimum wage or less. Keeping their tuition out of state is going to make it more difficult for them to get an education. And what happens when people do not have access to education?
I cannot buy the argument that some children are more deserving of others. I really have tried to see the other side of this argument and I can't. Elvish, I am sorry for your family's plight, but it does not change my mind.
I didn't think it would, and that wasn't why I posted it, but it's a hell of a lot different story when you're talking theory vs. real life.
| | No. 33 |
Apr 05, 2009, 06:18 PM
Re: Why should illegal immigrants get tuition breaks? Originally Posted by Elvish But it is not exactly like THEY made the choice to come here. And it's not like undocumented folks here have it any easier financially - for pete's sake they are the ones picking our cucumbers and taking care of our kids and slaughtering our livestock for minimum wage or less. Keeping their tuition out of state is going to make it more difficult for them to get an education. And what happens when people do not have access to education?
I cannot buy the argument that some children are more deserving of others. I really have tried to see the other side of this argument and I can't.
I didn't think it would, and that wasn't why I posted it, but it's a hell of a lot different story when you're talking theory vs. real life.
I'm not saying that any child is more deserving than others...I am saying that those who break the rules shouldn't get special priviledges. Like it or not, being here illegally is still breaking the rules. Even if the rules may or may not be fair.
I live between 2 "sanctuary cities", I see firsthand what unchecked illegal immigration brings in real life, and that is why I am against legislature to make to make is easier on illegal immigrants.
I know that not all illegal immigrants are gang members, drug dealers, etc. Or that they are coming across the border to flood our hospitals to seek treatment for a end stage diseases because they know once they are admitted, it will be near impossible to be kicked out of the hospital. However I see this. I hear in the news of crimes committed, and the perpetrators fleeing back to their home country.
I see every weekend car wrecks and traffic at a stand still on the highways due to cars chained together "in-tow", where they'll be taken to Mexico and sold for hi profit, citizens of mexico aren't taxed for taking cars over the border.
| | No. 35 |
Apr 05, 2009, 07:48 PM
Re: Why should illegal immigrants get tuition breaks? Like it or not, being here illegally is still breaking the rules. Even if the rules may or may not be fair.
Would you still feel that way if you were on the receiving end of the unfairness? Just because a rule exists doesn't make it fair - and if the rule isn't fair, then should it really be a rule at all? Martin Luther King Jr. certainly didn't think so, and I don't believe the Jesus of the Bible did either. I'm not saying that any child is more deserving than others...I am saying that those who break the rules shouldn't get special priviledges
And how is a child capable of breaking a law willfully? Do you feel this way about child prostitutes as well? Just wondering. I live between 2 "sanctuary cities", I see firsthand what unchecked illegal immigration brings in real life, and that is why I am against legislature to make to make is easier on illegal immigrants.
I live with and among immigrants of varying status in-country. I have worked in migrant camps, I have worked in community health centers where the primary focus was on immigrants. I have done this for almost a decade now. I live the immigration debate every day, and I can promise you that it is very different from the inside looking out. What you see as 'making life easier', I see as 'making the world a bit more just.' I see every weekend car wrecks and traffic at a stand still on the highways due to cars chained together "in-tow", where they'll be taken to Mexico and sold for hi profit, citizens of mexico aren't taxed for taking cars over the border.
That has absolutely nothing to do with illegal immigration. But just so you know, the car has to be more than ten years old before it can be taken across the border permanently.
| | No. 36 |
Apr 05, 2009, 09:06 PM
Re: Why should illegal immigrants get tuition breaks? Originally Posted by elthia I don't think they should get a tuition break.
I'm the daughter of a LEGAL immigrant. I went without a lot of things growing up, I remember when my mother working 12 hour shifts at a factory almost every day and money being tight as she paid for her citizenship. I remember I was ahead of my kindergarten classes, because I learned to read and write as my mother struggled to learn to read and write in ENGLISH. I remember how hard it was for her, a divorced mother of two, and how proud she was to become a US citizen.
I remember having to study in school and being told, the only way I could pay for school was through scholarships and loans. I'm still paying off my student loans.
My mother did every thing right, legal, by the book; as do thousands of other LEGAL immigrants. To have illegal immigrants come over, break the laws and exceptions made for them over and over it's like spitting at us and kicking sand in our face. Why did we struggle and go without, if they get to break all the rules and obtain the same dream?? It's not fair.
Yes, I know that this piece of legislature is aimed at the children of illegal immigrants, but as a child of someone who is followed the path to citizenship, it's something that hits very close to home.
I too am the daughter of legal immigrants and and immigrant myself. I am eternally grateful to a country that welcomed us and gave us a leg up to achieve our goals. America is a big country with room for the immigrants that are already here and are struggling to become "legal". It is the fault of America for not adequately closing the borders, now we should take the responsibility of our inaction and do what is right and humane. I don't begrudge these kids an education and an opportunity at a better life.
| | No. 37 |
Apr 05, 2009, 09:18 PM
Updated
Apr 05, 2009 at 10:03 PM by Absolutely13
Re: Why should illegal immigrants get tuition breaks?
It's an uphill battle, but I support changing the current law to reflect all residents of a state, regardless of how they arrived. If we insist on having the reputation as compassionate nation, we ought to act compassionately within our own borders as a statement to the world.
I'm tired of being the "Do as I say, not as I do" country.
| | No. 39 |
Apr 06, 2009, 10:41 AM
Re: Why should illegal immigrants get tuition breaks? Originally Posted by SharonH, RN Oh so you are making assumptions, thanks for clarifying......
No , I am not making assumptions. I was listening to a local talk show about this issue some time ago. A man with two daughters had phoned in. His daughters chose to go to Community college out of high school, to save some money and to get a rock solid GPA prior to applying to the UW, I believe.
But even after that, two year of CC and now good grades, neither daughter was admitted. In the meantime, it IS documented that 1300 students in WA, who are illegal immigrants, have been admitted, and get reduced in-state tuition costs.
I don't make stuff up and even though there's no way I can link you to anything for "proof" it happens and it happening.
There is no way to justify even 2 students who are legal residents being turned away when illegal residents are not.
| | 499 members
4,757 guests 5,256 |
World News & Politics