Profiling or Security? Take yer pick

Obviously Middle Easterners are going to be targeted even if they say they aren't profiling. The only problem with that is that not all Middle Easterners are muslim extremists (a lot are christians) and not all extremists are Middle Easterners (think John Walker) and a lot of people who look like Middle Eastern extremists are actually Indian Sihks and so on and so on.... The only thing you can really tell from looking at them is their age and skin colour and gender....

Interesting article today on the effectiveness, or lack thereof, in airport security in general, including various kinds of profiling:

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2064257

Nuts. My 2 year old neice was searched, binky and everything. While a middle eastern male behind them wasn't. At least not overtly. Nuts.

It's interesting how the person who started this thread listed a handfull of terrorist acts from 1972 to 2002 that may have been caused by:

"(d) Male Middle Eastern Muslim extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40".

Yet, during this time period that have been hundreds if not thousands of "terrorist acts", some big some small, that were caused by people of all races, ages, sex, culture, etc. . .

I guess I'm looking for suggestions on how we can heal as a nation. Better yet, how we can heal as a world! In my mind, this particular post does nothing more than add fuel to the fire. At the very least, it keeps the buring cinders of hate alive and well.

It's a pity, actually. Terrorism and war between all cultures, races, and religions have been going on since the beginning of human-kind.

Again, how about some suggestions on healing and peace?

Ted

So many people of various cultures & background have participated in "terrorist acts". Just go back to the last century where in both WWI & WWII, the Germans where the enemy as well as the Italians in WWII. Neither the German or Italian Americans were "profiled"...but doing WWII, Japanese Amercians where hauled-up & put into concentration camps - right here in the good ole USA! No German Americans or Italian Americans for that matter where hauled-up & placed in such camps because it was easier to identify Japanese Americans than it was to identify German Americans...besides, hauling-up German Americans was, for white America at that time, undesirable...it would've been too much like hauling themselves up.

The other recent horrible terroistic act commetted on the US was done so by a white American...Timothy McVae(sp?). I remember no "profiling" being done towards any other Anglo-Saxon Christians since then. Fergus51 makes a valid point in saying that there are various cultures coupled with different religious background living in the Middle East. I will add to that & say that not all Muslims are people of color either...i.e. the Muslims of Bosina in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia are of white descent...would it be so easy to identify them if they weren't wearing their "garb'?...I think not.

Unfortunately, everyone must be subjected to these searches, even if they're only two years old...sorry Susy & Furball...no one should be subjected to searches as a result of "profiling" How quick we are to forget just how children were used as walking bombs in the Vietnam War or even now in different parts of Africa where children are being terrorized & used in such a manner.

IMHO, using humor in this manner is...for the lack of a better word...insensative to say the least especially for those "(d) Male Middle Eastern Muslim Extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40" & their families. Terrorists should be judged by their philosophy coupled with terroristic actions & not for their religious beliefs per-say. We all have to look at what is going on with them & why these people are so upset with us Americans...we have to be willing to listen to whatever it is why they think we're against them. Maybe then, we could come up with "suggestions on how we can heal as a nation...or world" as Efiebke so eloquently stated - Moe

I have a proposal for cheaper more effective airport security. Instead of hiring a lot of convicted felons and retirees to search for guns, knives and explosives, we should simply arm every passenger boarding the planes with hand guns. Then no one would consider starting anything on the flights.

Gun control: evry round into the center of mass. Gary

...that everyone(that includes infants, children, & the elderly) must be searched in these trying days & time for the examples I'd stated above...i.e. It's unfortunate that we live in such a dangerous & untrusting world...we all must "LISTEN" to & not just "HEAR" the other person's point of view in order to "UNDERSTAND" what is being "SAID"...only then can we start to communicate in order to solve some of these problems that pleague the world.

Susy, my previous post was also IMHO & not a personal attack on you...I just wanted you to see the importance where everyone must be search in the air ports & such...we don't know all of the facts & circumstances as to the procedures at that or any other air port which suggest or alleged that this Middle Eastern man wasn't checked while the two year old was...he may have been checked at another point or he may have been under strick surveillance as many are being profiled or he could even have been an US Air Marshal (which would explain the staff not searching him)...in any case, we don't know for sure that he wasn't search so not to "offend" him & to get all rallied-up over something we have no direct proof or knowlege of this one case is a waste of time & energy. You should expect some opposing views regarding the issue of racial profiling as this is sure to be a hot & sore topic for some though!!!

Now I feel that I really must be honest about just how this thread has made me feel...if my feelings seem extreme or if they infer a sharp point of view, then I must apologize in advance.

It's easy to point a finger at someone else when it's not our selves being racially profiled...but just let it happen to you or someone dear to you & you'll see what's like to walk into stores & have people watch you on monitors & follow you around until you've made your purchase(s) & leave...or look at you as if you don't belong there at all. You really must walk a mile or two in someone else's shoes to fully understand their plight. I, as a Native/Afro-American female have experienced various kinds of profiling acts against me, my family, & friends. So forgive me because I do take offense on the matter of racial profiling. In the state of New Jersey, Afro-Americans have been profiled on the state's highways for years...& the issue came to a head when a van full of black youths was shot upon, just because they "might be dangerous". They didn't have any weapons what so ever but was fired upon just the same...the case have been in & out of courts now & there have been some changes in the NJ State Troopers' policies & procedures on traffic stops. In another case in New York, an Jamaican desent man was standing in his doorway & was told to put his hands up...unfortunately, he was holding a cell phone at the time & the police officers shoot him 41 times...they killed him like a mad dog because he was black & they were afraid that he "might" of had a gun...& the really sad thing is the fact that those officers had the wrong man...but they were acquited from any wrong doing anyway...if a white man was shot down 41 times like an animal by any black officers, they would've gone to prision, no questions asked...there would be no aquitals for them - that would just never happen...never. In the past, black soldiers were sent over seas to fight the injustices of both WWI & WWII but returned to Jim Crowe laws in the south...the branches of the services wasn't desegregated until 1945, after WWII...before then, only white soldiers were trained & fought side-by-side...everyone else was trained & fought according to their individual race. I've only given you three out of hundreds of examples of these kinds of actions being taken against people of different race/religions down through the years in good ole America. This country has come a long way since then & it still has a long way to go...let's not go backwards by re-installing racial profiling...please.

So if I sound bitter it is because I am...again, I apologize for it seems that when this thread was started, IMO, it was done so to get people rallied-up against those so called "(d) Male Middle Eastern Muslim Extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40" & their families with no specific point except to poke fun, insteel hate, &/or to rally people behind racial profiling...which really leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth.

Racial profiling doesn't belong anywhere in America nor does racism belong anywhere on these BBs either. It was only when Furball spoke about what had happened to her neice is when you, Susy, proclaim your reason for starting this thread...but I didn't see any example of this kind in our original post except for wanting random searches of little kids & 80 year old women to stop & to have racial profiling to start. That's why a few posters have stated that it's wrong to profile based on religion/race...you have to have probable cause to become a suspect, get searched with a warrent issued by a judge, be interviewed with legeal representation for an alleged crime (that's already committed)....random searches in the air ports, bus, & train stations must continue for everyone's safety prior to any crimes being committed.

You said that the information was presented to you by someone else & that you wanted to share it... but surely you had to have seen where it would be offensive to some...& perhaps that was your intention...I don't know...only you & God know the truth. I find it hard to believe that you would or could be that mean spirited or naive...if you go-on to play the "I didn't know" card would be insulting to say the least...I really hope that your intentions weren't to do this so I suggest before starting any new thread or making any further posts which could be inflammatory or become misunderstood, you should run it by your family memebers (spouse, parents, grandparents, in-laws, or aunts/uncles) & fellow peers (co-workers, friends, classmates, instructors, supervisors, or religious leaders) first...just to get their reactions...JMO & friendly advise - Moe